We thank you for your support and hope you'll join the largest aviation community on the web. American Eagle flight 4184, an ATR 72 flying from IND to ORD, crashed in Northern Indiana on October 31, 1994, which was 25 years ago yesterday. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. The Douglas DC10, even before 1979 suffered multiple hull loses and even for a time, held the accolade of being the aircraft involved in the deadliest air disaster to have occurred at that time. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. Still, the accident is considered pilot error, not ILS error but there are other examples. (The paper is easy to source online). Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air All of them involved pilot fatigue, either from Ironically the article is surrounded by more pages of advertisements than its total page count. TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! . Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. Reichel probably didn't call out altitude, but we do not know this for sure. Pictures of great freighter aircraft, Government Aircraft The CVR recording has a violent crashing sound which could be the initial collision with the dump truck and immediately following this is pilot Charles Gilbert's exclamation of "Jesus . [3] Acheter. Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft We are looking into the cockpit through the cockpit windows to the pilots seated just inside. This would certainly result in limited to no control over the aircraft. Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. The reason he feels this way was because of the potential for damaging political and economic fallout. Ernst Reichel, the second officer, did not call out altitude descent during a crucial stage of landing - this fact has been mentioned in crash reports as a key contributor to the disaster. Mark Lincoln (talk) 00:45, 2 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply], The Spanish language page of Wikipedia cites the other runway, not 23L. Consider the following: Western Airlines knew its pilots had landed on the "wrong" runway previously, or they should have, as did Mexican authorities. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Both military and civil versions, Blimps / Airships A part of the CVR is widely available online. (?) Valable sur tout le rseau tram et bus TAG. Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft The hydraulic system may have been destroyed. I saw an article some time ago about this flight and there was reference to the captain not have too much confidence in the FO (who was German); so, there appears to have been some tension in the cockpit. - paragraph added at 17:40 + amended at 17:43 and 17:46, 24 November (unsigned contributions) by 173.120.148.69, and 23:37, 30 November (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.180.238, and 01:17 and 03:22, 1 December 2019 (unsigned contributions) by 173.153.15.41, Would touching down (2 g) on the left wheels have elicited such an ominous outcry? While searching for the Western Airlines 2605, Mexico City, 1979 accident I discovered that there is nothing at all on the web. explain how a 31,500 hour pilot, who liked to fly so much The violent crashing is clearly heard. As a lay person with a recent fascination with this crash, I'm assuming this was the truck collision by the noises on the CVR. their compatability. It's a plane which certainly has a divided history. I can't remember where I read the article, but it was very interesting. The entire CVR is not easily accessable. On October 31, 1979, the aircraft used for the flight, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10, crashed at Mexico City's Benito Juarez International Airport in early morning fog after landing on a runway closed for maintenance. mined by the investigation board. Is the ALPA report secret or proprietary? (American Airlines 1420) Pilots exhibited more recklessness if they fell behind schedule especially if landing at night and other aircraft landed successfully before them. This video also went out to my Patrons on Patreon 48 hours before going out publicly. Theyd have no obvious warning tht 23R was in front of them but hidden. Airport overviews from the air or ground, Tails and Winglets [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Recording October 31, 1979, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnWwyVT-nEA. We thank you for your support and hope you'll join the largest aviation community on the web. A friend of the Western Airlines DC-I0 captain had Presumably the "Flying Magazine" article abridged content from 'official' reports and other sources. ", This page was last edited on 3 May 2022, at 01:09. Western Airlines Flight 2605, nicknamed the "Night Owl", was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles, California, to Mexico City, Mexico. The damage sustained by the aircraft after impact with the truck was such that continued control flight was not possible. Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior, Cargo Aircraft Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos. Aircraft type McDonnell Douglas DC-10-10Operator Western AirlinesRegistration N903WAFlight origin Los Angeles Int'l AirportLos Angeles, California, United St. Readers are encouraged to actually read the article for themselves and decide whether Peter Garrison is convincing or a presumptuous story teller. Flight 2605's "hydraulic systems" - as far as this contributor is aware - are not discussed in any crash analysis or publication. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpQWYdByNSg, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1DlBRS0PiE. A key result of the engine detachment and hydraulic failure was the atypical slat retraction of the DC-10 in these circumstances. Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.61.11.230 (talk) 21:25, 4 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]. 1 mois de voyages illimits. Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe, Classic Airliners LAST WORDS ON FLIGHT: BRACE CHARLES! - paragraph added at 20:21 + amended at 20:23, 19 December 2019 (unsigned contributions) by 173.120.214.74, - section created at 15:12, 22 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.124. 2012-06-29, 13:43. Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.120.246.108 (talk) 22:08, 25 December 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], - section created at 22:37, 29 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.184.130. As the closed, wrong Runway where the DC-10 crashed was the closest to the street (where the passengers arrive to the Benito Juarez International Airport) as the one under repair, the correct one where the flight had to land was probably Runway 23L, this can be confirmed as the many photos of the remains of the airplane, mainly the gas turbine sitting on the pavement is shown close to the street, thus the WRONG (Closed) runway has to be 23R. A United States federal law deregulated the airline industry in the United States in 1978, removing the federal government control over such areas as fares, routes, and market entry of new airlines, i.e the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978. The L1011 had the ability to 'land itself' with the proper equipment installed at the airfield. I would think so. WA 2605, A 35 AOS DEL PEOR ACCIDENTE AREO EN LA CIUDAD DE MXICO Hopefully this accident is featured on one of the future Air Crash Investigation episodes on Discovery channel. crew was fatigued from flying all night, landing at 0542." Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR DisasterOnline 12.6K subscribers Subscribe 2K 219K views 8 years ago The voice recorder of Western Airlines flight 2605, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10, that crashed. seems to say the following: " We're (He's?) Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos. (That is, do the sidestep "in advance", out by "Metro Eco".) The tower tapes to this day have never been released. Walsh (?) and our A periodical featuring an advertisement of the L1011 depicts a perspective just off the nose of the aircraft. According to the ICAO circular, max power was applied prior to collision with the truck. I had to read it again to make clear they were to the left of 23L also!! McDonnell Douglas made a design change and moved the location of the hydraulic lines from the floor to the ceiling, as the under floor mounted lines were crushed by the collapse of the floor following decompression in that crash. McDonnell Douglas made three more hydraulic system design changes following this accident. We'll never know because of the damage to the CVR: "The possibility exists that the callouts were made but erased in that portion of the CVR tape; however, it is highly unlikely that this was accomplished. with his crew that he had requested several times to have Population: 6,630 People A July 19th, 1989 United DC-10 crash was caused by an engine failure which damaged the hydraulic system and reduced control to a point that the pilots could utilize only engine power to prepare the aircraft for an emergency landing. ", - section created at 20:44, 30 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.131.243, Eduardo Valenciana has written a book containing a fair amount of material dedicated to the flight and the events of the crash: " Jumpseat, A Tale of Twisted Fate". right for a mistake and an accident. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. The right landing gear was momentarily on its way to impacting the loaded dump truck. The CVR may in fact be missing information. That alone would be fascinating if we could obtain it. Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.120.156.105 (talk) 22:49, 11 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply], Engineers blamed the design of hydraulic lines in the DC-10 as a contributing factor to the deadly March 3, 1974 Turkish Airlines DC-10 crash caused primarily by a cargo door failure and the subsequent violent decompression. One new winner* is announced every week! Flight 2605 remains the deadliest air accident to have occurred in Mexico City. : 50 YEARS (FO IS UNKNOWN) (Did they know where they were more specifically?) As a consequence, they will not be dealt with; they Those locks prevent an unbalanced aerodynamic condition in which one wing has more lift than the other. sition to the parallel operating runway at an airport with a to heavy construction in progress, which may have induced the Captain to vary By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. This is presumably the point he is yelling "Jesus Christ!" Pilot Gilbert got on the power (100%) before the impact with the truck and after Reichel calmly called to go around after everyone agreed they were at 23L. His flight manager had promised to Its a plane which certainly has a divided history. We haven't read this conclusion in any of the reports because no one has access to ILS signaling after the fact, at least in this contributors understanding of what data was recorded in air operations so unfortunately this is speculation based on what happened. - paragraph amended at 21:05, 30 December by 173.120.131.243 and 00:00, 31 December 2019 by 173.120.182.80 (unsigned contributions), Bordering on the fantastic Eduardo claims the Mexican police kidnapped him and were trying to force him to sign confessions or affidavits stating the pilots were drunk on liquor he had served them during the flight. Here are some ideas: - paragraph added at 20:21 + amended at 20:22, 19 December 2019 (unsigned contributions) by 173.120.214.74, Lay readers still have no idea what a "more than 2g force landing" means. Props and jets from the good old days, Flight Decks Bingo. But then, with fog-banks etc giving them problems, visual contact was with 23L but not 23R; they reckoned they had slightly overdone the lateral separation and moved left to correct it, and so lined up with 23L . We process personal data about users of our site, through the use of cookies and other technologies, to deliver our services, personalize advertising, and to analyze site activity. SquisherDa (talk) 10:16, 24 October 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], - section heading inserted (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41 at 00:53, 1 December 2019, "the flight touched down hard on the unpaved left shoulder of Runway 23L with more than 2 g of force, at 130 knots of speed." Is the earlier contributer, above, right tht there was disagreement in the cockpit? Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior, Cargo Aircraft 68 people died in that crash. This behaviour was a contributing cause of the accident, but is completely ignored in the article. This accident, incidentally, occured 18 years after the crash of 2605 which investigators also pointed out altitude callouts, and fatigue. This page was generated at 03:03. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westernes_Flight_2605, http://aviation-safety.net/database/?id=19791031-0, http://books.google.com/books?id=8BVpage&q&f=false, http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fod.main/130485/, http://tvnews.vanderbilt.edu/program.pl?ID=57025, http://web.archive.org/web/200910220/blackbox.html, http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/-tapes-cd.html, http://www.taxiways.de/DC-10/accident/N903WA.html, If this is your first visit, be sure to Encore moins cher pour les -26 ans. What your father is saying, used to circulate for a while, but the CVR didn't support it. has he? - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, We can surmise (?) Even sadder is the fact that all four of those major air France (Isre, Auvergne-Rhne-Alpes): Current local time in & Next time change in Saint-Ismier, Time Zone Europe/Paris (UTC+1). SquisherDa (talk) 10:16, 24 October 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], And, thinking of sources - do we have the CVR? 28 Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. This wreckage continued aft, tearing away all RE: Western 2605 In MEX - New Pics #8819177 BY thegoldenargosy - Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:22 am One of the flight attendants survived and is still flying for DL in SLC. It's pilots loved the plane. Page contents not supported in other languages. Perhaps they were sloppily dressed? I have cleaned up the background. Other entries are my opinions as well. No matter how cut throat, abusive, tyrannical or destructive corporations and finance would be to other aspects of flying the public had to be told the Government would never ever compromise on safety. - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, Finally, I have read no analysis of the final statement that one of the 3 man crew says loudly under Gilbert's screams. I can't remember where I read the article, but it was very interesting. Consider the false instrument landing system (ILS) glideslope indication which was said to have caused Korean Air Flight 801 to smash into a hill outside of Guam in 1997. and our - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, Gilbert probably knows (his hands on the yoke?) This is blather with ludicrous speculation. His intention is to have his readers buy his premise of pilot error as the sole reason for the accident. Airliners.net is the leading community for discovering and sharing high-quality aviation photography. ground and simultaneously struck i dump truck loaded with gravel. Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries, Airport Overviews Western Airlines Flight 2605 19 Reply kapotchaboii 1 yr. ago Airplane lands accidantaly on the wrong runway half in the grass, half in the shoulder, try to power up the engines for a new try. (But the pilots did anyway, probably as they did far more often that didn't end in some kind of horrific hull loss, and perhaps as Gilbert was doing in '79. ) Reichel was described as tired or unfit and he said so at one point in the cockpit. Privacy Policy. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. The CVR has no indication of strong disagreement. Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.61.11.102 (talk) 22:05, 4 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply], - section created (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.148.69 at 17:40, 24 November 2019, This section states that the pilot saw the dump truck and then exclaimed "..Jesus Christ". Western Airlines Flight 2605 was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles to Mexico City. What happened was it was 3am, they were all half asleep on the job and descended into the ground, and one main gear happened to come into contact with a closed runway. " the ground at any time. The plane is surrounded by heavy, dense fog and other than this view into the cockpit there is no visibility. - paragraph added at 15:33, 22 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.124, From the publication DOT/FAA/PM-86/46 "Aeronautical Decision Making - Cockpit Resource Management" investigator observations within 24 hours of the accident: - paragraph added at 22:43 (and amended 22:44 and 22:45 x2), 29 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.184.130, "Main electrical wires to the approach lighting system and VAst for 23 left were observed to be disconnected. I emailed the gracious Mr. Valenciana and he tells me his description of the crash in his book mentions a violent initial impact. The plane then quickly hit the truck, the electric pole, the excavator cab and finally the building. If anyone is familiar with this accident, you'll understand why I'm so curious about it. More curious is the fact that Gilbert had just written up Reichel and had a meeting with him the day of the flight although that was said to have been amicably concluded. that he owned a T-6 and flew for fun, made such a mistake? - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, 20 minutes before the accident a 727 from Mexicana airlines landed normally on 23R using the "same procedure which the Western aircraft was instructed to follow". - paragraph amended at 20:36, 1 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.9.109. I remember flying into that airport a couple months later. The aircraft speed decreased from 136 knots to 128 knots. The event is the third-deadliest aviation accident on Mexican soil after the crashes of two Boeing 727s: the 1969 crash of Mexicana de Aviacin Flight 704 and that of Mexicana de Aviacin Flight 940 in 1986. Most reports I've read seem to state that Pilot Gilbert saw the truck. Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air In the video you hear the last screams of the pilots. All Rights Reserved. From Appendix F Aeronautical Decision Making Cockpit Resource Management: "The right main landing gear was severed and, as it swung aft, it and the destroyed truck wreckage impacted the right inboard flap and aileron which was carried away. BY AR385 - Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:03 am - Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:03 am #10741679. Western Airlines Flight 2605 LAX-MEX '79 #10741679. This flight departed late in the evening and who knows how long the crew had been on duty or how much rest they had gotten, apparently not much.
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